You left out a bit of stealth advice. When you get spotted by one mob and have to fight, if you can stealth back out of the room, and then Do Not Move during the fight, the other mobs in the room will neither see nor hear you.

Separately you can go ahead and break barrels and such , and again as long as you do not move and mobs have their backs to you, you can restealth and continue.

Bluff has one other advantage, in that it works from around the corner. You can bluff a mob that cant look directly at you, then back up, and shoot it once when it pokes its nose around the door/corner looking for you. Handle the fight without moving, then stealth up to bluff the next. That’s a good way to clear the most disadvantageously placed mobs before sneaking through the rest of the pack.

Or if you do want to kill them all, just not all at once, move slightly at a distance from around a corner. One or two more will come look, and more will gradually pile on as the fight continues. But you end up fighting 2-3 at a time instead of 8-10. The game is much more forgiving about slight noises as compared to visibility.

You never came out to say it, but if you only have enough skill points for one or the other, put them in move silently. Invis wands/potions can handle the hide half of things.

posted this on the main forums so thougt I would add it here for future posterity; here is the full thread with other forumites:

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DDOCast 452 – Being Sneaky
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pjstechie’s Avatar
pjstechie said:
11-06-2016 08:36 PM
Default DDOCast 452 – Being Sneaky

Sahba Jade Joins Patrick for a discussion and tips for Being Sneaky! We also talk about some game and community news and some lightning post!

Have thoughts on this show, ideas for round table topics, questions you’d like us to answer, or topics you’d like to see us debate? Leave us a comment, send us an email (ddocast@gmail.com) or give us a tweet (@ddocast)!

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Being Sneaky – 3:00
Game News – 30:43
Community News – 39:40
Lightning Post – 46:05
Closing – 1:01:39

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Last edited by pjstechie; 11-11-2016 at 02:25 PM.
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Grandern_Marn’s Avatar
Grandern_Marn said:
11-07-2016 01:36 PM
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Good discussion on being sneaky! I was thinking that it would be informative to to talk about different forms of noise makers or distractions for monsters such as the Flaming Spheres which went unmentioned. (oh the horror!)

A discussion on invisibility in game also would be interesting, I found that when farming the new Revels quest groups would be invizing some parts of the quest but it seemed that with larger groups we kept getting the attention of the Usain Bolt speed skellies. People were getting upset with other players for not invizing properly but I had the feeling that the monsters were hearing or sensing the players as they ran by. If this is the case I think that’s great as it is a good balance against invizing too much content. This would be good to have some clarification on so people aren’t getting upset with others for no reason.
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Livmo said:
11-07-2016 03:03 PM
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Quote Originally Posted by Grandern_Marn View Post
Good discussion on being sneaky! I was thinking that it would be informative to to talk about different forms of noise makers or distractions for monsters such as the Flaming Spheres which went unmentioned. (oh the horror!)

A discussion on invisibility in game also would be interesting, I found that when farming the new Revels quest groups would be invizing some parts of the quest but it seemed that with larger groups we kept getting the attention of the Usain Bolt speed skellies. People were getting upset with other players for not invizing properly but I had the feeling that the monsters were hearing or sensing the players as they ran by. If this is the case I think that’s great as it is a good balance against invizing too much content. This would be good to have some clarification on so people aren’t getting upset with others for no reason.
Very handy since it’s BtA. Imade one before the event ended.

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FuzzyDuck81 said:
11-08-2016 02:56 AM
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Assorted thoughts as I was listening

I enjoy sneaking, but tend to use it more for getting an advantage at the start of combat than to bypass fights completely, though it depends on the dungeon. It’s great for lining up an IPS special attack, or placing traps (regular doesn’t break stealth, but the mechanic time bomb will bring you out of stealth once placed), or for sneaking close enough to a beholder to fire off a petrifying runestone.

Of rogues, rangers & monks, I think rangers are the best at pure stealth, since they get hide in plain sight as a class feature plus camo & pass without trace spells which stack with items. Monks get the advantages of shadow fade for invisibility & abundant step, which lets you quickly dart away around a corner to lose enemies if they get a hint of your presence so they’re probably best at the stealthy recon & evasion role overall. Rogues I think are actually the worst of those 3 at pure sneakiness, but they get those huge bonuses to attacking from stealth.

Don’t overlook bards – they can be built to be as effective as rogues at the pure sneaking (hide & move silently are class skills for them too, though they don’t get the ability to move faster while sneaking) & using fascinate doesn’t break stealth so they can be really good for helping an entire party bypass groups by taking the lead – just make sure party members have any aura-type effects switched off first so they don’t wake them up again by accident!

The red eye thing means they know exactly where you are, but you’re still invisible so will still benefit from miss chances since they can’t actually see you and if you can run away fast enough round a corner then go silent (ie sneak) and get further away, it’s still possible to lose enemies & avoid the fight.

Underrated effects I’d say shattermantle (or improved version) since unless you’re combining fighting and casting, it’s more likely to require a party member giving up some dps potential to help your spellcasters do the work, but can be really useful against certain enemies with high spell resistance.

I have a feeling open lock DCs will never go above 99 – reason being, the bell of opening counts as a knock spell with caster level 99 (knock itself is caster level plus ability modifier, for an item that’d presumably be 0, so just the caster level would apply) & it’d be a legitimate reason for a refund if it didn’t work, as the whole selling point of that item is to be able to open literally any lock that is capable of being picked.
I don’t mean to come across as unsympathetic – but I am, so I do.
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Saekee’s Avatar
Saekee said:
11-10-2016 11:38 AM
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Thanks for doing this topic

Quote Originally Posted by Grandern_Marn View Post
Good discussion on being sneaky! I was thinking that it would be informative to to talk about different forms of noise makers or distractions for monsters such as the Flaming Spheres which went unmentioned. (oh the horror!)
Yes and thanks for the mention. Sahba please join the fan club!
Quote Originally Posted by Livmo View Post
Very handy since it’s BtA. Imade one before the event ended.

I made one of those! Not really necessary since the scrolls are easy to UMD but they are fun to have due to the count regenerating (I am lazy about keeping stuff in their stacks…)

Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyDuck81 View Post
Assorted thoughts as I was listening

I enjoy sneaking, but tend to use it more for getting an advantage at the start of combat than to bypass fights completely, though it depends on the dungeon. It’s great for lining up an IPS special attack, or placing traps (regular doesn’t break stealth, but the mechanic time bomb will bring you out of stealth once placed), or for sneaking close enough to a beholder to fire off a petrifying runestone.

Of rogues, rangers & monks, I think rangers are the best at pure stealth, since they get hide in plain sight as a class feature plus camo & pass without trace spells which stack with items. Monks get the advantages of shadow fade for invisibility & abundant step, which lets you quickly dart away around a corner to lose enemies if they get a hint of your presence so they’re probably best at the stealthy recon & evasion role overall. Rogues I think are actually the worst of those 3 at pure sneakiness, but they get those huge bonuses to attacking from stealth.

Don’t overlook bards – they can be built to be as effective as rogues at the pure sneaking (hide & move silently are class skills for them too, though they don’t get the ability to move faster while sneaking) & using fascinate doesn’t break stealth so they can be really good for helping an entire party bypass groups by taking the lead – just make sure party members have any aura-type effects switched off first so they don’t wake them up again by accident!

The red eye thing means they know exactly where you are, but you’re still invisible so will still benefit from miss chances since they can’t actually see you and if you can run away fast enough round a corner then go silent (ie sneak) and get further away, it’s still possible to lose enemies & avoid the fight.

Underrated effects I’d say shattermantle (or improved version) since unless you’re combining fighting and casting, it’s more likely to require a party member giving up some dps potential to help your spellcasters do the work, but can be really useful against certain enemies with high spell resistance.

I have a feeling open lock DCs will never go above 99 – reason being, the bell of opening counts as a knock spell with caster level 99 (knock itself is caster level plus ability modifier, for an item that’d presumably be 0, so just the caster level would apply) & it’d be a legitimate reason for a refund if it didn’t work, as the whole selling point of that item is to be able to open literally any lock that is capable of being picked.
great points

I want to test the dagger-at-the-wall-mob-puller thing before posting some thoughts.
Last edited by Saekee; 11-10-2016 at 11:42 AM.
Songs from the Slums: A Sacred Vow of Poverty heroic Nude run, in pictures
stealth guides: EE Old Tomb, New Tenants; EE Tide Turns; Weave in the Fade; The Prowler: Covert assassin of House Thuranni
Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith

faster sneaking—seen threads about them all stacking from different trees (should be a funny build to use them all); weave in the fade to help this (mentioned at 30:00). Dire charge, flyby will give brief boost to movement (well, the distance you cover) as will the Shadar kai jaunt.

Distraction techniques—invisi stepping, noisemakers (around 21:25 in vid), flaming sphere scrolls, sacrificial dog (breakables do not seem to work, nor throwing a dagger/shuriken at a wall), temporary reductions of MS (equipping/unequipping the gear or something like shatter bow). You can move mobs onto their own traps (very nice to do in Mask of Deception).

Things that can be done from stealth and that do not break stealth:
shadow veil, drinking potions, setting noisemakers and other rogue traps; as mentioned in video are runes and puzzles

Range of sight—if outside the line of sight of most mobs, you can even stand up, cast spells, etc.

attacking: if you stay in one spot, your melee attacking will not alert the folks around you, even adjacent, assuming that they are not facing you. Experiment with this; it is really funny. Often it is like they are deaf.

Getting hit breaks sneak—so Weave in the Fade to reduce this chance

Pulling: bluff skill; rogues can also use Assassin’s trick. This is an insta puller! Even if a melee, and holding melee weapons, Assassin’s trick works from far away (kind of weird, really). You will see them get a purple light briefly. You can pull champs with true sight by being invisible and standing in their sight! Then run back and kill them away from their buddies. Throwing daggers at breakables or walls no longer moves mobs. I just tested it in Siegebreaker. Maybe in some quests it might still function, but that is really a past thing that was eliminated by the devs when they adjusted the way mobs aggro, investigate etc.

assassinate fun: if a mob is charging you (aggro’d), you can bluff them right before they get to you and, if successful, assassinate! This can be done in a variety of ways.

Please check out the guide in my sig; we are working on updating it. Suggestions welcome.
Songs from the Slums: A Sacred Vow of Poverty heroic Nude run, in pictures
stealth guides: EE Old Tomb, New Tenants; EE Tide Turns; Weave in the Fade; The Prowler: Covert assassin of House Thuranni
Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith

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